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 Papa's Quad Build(s).

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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:56 am

I may regret it as I'm sure it's very possible for that tape to come loose...
...but I disagree on this as I think if your motors are slightly unbalanced it costs nothing to get them back to true balance again. This means less work to correct for in-balance from the FC. If a motor is perfectly balanced it will definitely run smoother too, all my motors where out, only by a fraction, but at speed this is not only visible on the Motors tab Gyros, but also audible.
Also any vibrations will wear out your motor bearings quicker and shorten it's lifespan.

I#ll keep an eye on it though, I get where your coming from, thanks for the heads up.

cool
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CANNER
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:24 pm

If you think it is necessary, I'm not going to try stop you from doing it. But I don't even know how to balance the motors with tape tbh. Can understand the theory for why, but I don't see the point, an imbalanced motor needs a new axis or bearings or just replaced completely. I read it is bad to spin up the motors without props too hard, it can cause imbalance. So if your looking for imbalance that way, you might actually be making it worse. Also the balance will be different with a prop attached.

Ah well just trying to save you some trouble. afro
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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:04 pm

The point is because it cost nothing and it's easy, not all motors are 100% balanced to perfection from the factory. This doesn't mean they're not good enough to fly nor does it mean they have any defects like axis or bearings. It just means you can head towards that 100% balance if you do it yourself.

I think I'm not getting across the fact the in-balance is small, however it's still important to have good balance on high speed motors. Does this really matter? Probably not much, but vibration is our enemy, the point is it costs nothing to do, and is also very easy to do.

Your right of course it is bad spinning motors without the prop load on but testing involves spinning them for a tiny amount of time, no stress caused at all without props on during this time.

Motors have many parts, there are small blobs of glue in them here and there During balancing in the factory they adding epoxy or similar inside the bell housing to re-balance them during testing, sometimes this isn't dry and runs a little, sometimes this blob they use simply comes off. Or it's simply not tuned perfectly, just adequately as this is time consuming and they will only spend so long on one motor .

Props on the other hand these days are mostly well balanced and are one single piece of plastic and unlikely to be wrong. There are occasional issues when a batch isn't moulded right, or the die they come from doesn't release the plastic properly.

BTW, I like trouble lol, this may ultimately not help much, but it's really sooo easy to do, ok tape may come loose, I can get aluminium tape with better adhesive, plus heavier so use less. I like to test these things myself.

When I eventually fly some more myself and later realise WTF why did I bother then fair enough, also motors are getting better quality and cheaper all the time and it will be less necessary as the manufacturing process gets more accurate.

The difference may be negligible, but like I said it's easy and I know it's not the motors if I see a vibration issue as I've tested em myself.

I look forward to the day you say "I told you so..." when my motor jams because the tape came loose... Hehehe...
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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:20 pm

Next...
The ESCs shrink wrapped and cable tied I forgot to show this in the previous pic, they stay pretty solid where they are so no need to tie them to the frame.
Added Current Sensor wire to IO2 plug harness goes to PDB, and connected VBat wires also to PDB...
LEDs and Buzzer left to do...
And its finally stopped raining, just today, yeee.  cheers

stage 6.2:
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CANNER
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:02 pm

The ESC stack looks pretty neat, but must be careful with the temperature. Exclamation ESCs can get warm or hot, stacked like this is not recommendable. I suggest strapping a tiewrap around each ESC, and then strap them together. That way there's a little gap for airflow between the ESCs. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:22 pm

Thanks dude...
I have a theory on that, firstly I kinda realised that but thought I'd try it anyway because it was a neat solution...
The heat will transfer between them all, the others act as sinks for the hot one, the whole stack has an average heat, no gaps, meh, heat transfer to next ESC, I reckon it'll be fine, I'm willing to experiment and gamble on it...

But it might not be fine, that's what I love about this hobby, so many possibilities for stuff, and experimentation etc...

Anyway, going to monitor it, again, experiment time, I reckon they'll be fine, but I might at some point in future get better motors and need 25a or 30a ESCs, then they will get much hotter...

Thanks dude, see what gives... Wink

In fact you've give me an idea, going to get a tiny temp sensor, and data log it through telemetry, just above the stack.

N1...

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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:31 pm

Trying to fit things into the smallest space makes the easiest job take 5 times as long, I've enjoy this though...

Finally worked out a way to direct mount LEDs with foam only and no surrounding support and not have the wire wrap around frame near motor and travel along it's track.
3 layers of foam, this stuff is so fecking strong, double backed 3m. Cutting it is a pain too, sliced my finger cleaning the fecking stuff off scissors before cutting next piece, argh!

I wanted it also give me the ability to lift the lid and make it easy for the wires to somehow run through a hole in the frame, can't touch the bottom part, warranty still valid if I don't.

Worked out quite good, tape should hold, if it doesn't I'll find another solution...

...And it's still pishing it down outside.

Stage 6.3:
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CANNER
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:14 pm

I know that sticky foam, it is very sticky indeed. Surprised But the foam itself is not very strong. Not sure it will hold in a crash. Maybe fasten it with some pieces of rope?
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:33 pm

Perhaps this might be necessary although the LED is very light, the local sailors had no rope left so I think 2 tiny cable-ties might suffice. lol!

Found a great solution for the receiver aerials sticking out the top of my Gravity. As this is a super low-profile build I wanted to be able to stash the aerial when it's being carried. My other Carbon frame has a nice push on connector that held the two wires and could be laid flat.

I like using zip-ties for this sort of thing, but they won't lay flat and stay flat, or bend back upright when I want to fly. I could make them work but found a more elegant solution.

This is an aerial mount by Walkera, for their Runner 250 quad, it's exactly what I wanted, small, light, hinged so the aerials fold flat in storage, or when it hits something. They have two position stops, flat along the quad, half way up, and fully upright. They would only be the ideal 90° though when fully upright.

I will have to remove some material from the underneath as it's not flat, easy job though.

Spot on, might have to pick up a few of these for other builds, unless I'm missing something this seems perfect.
cool


Last edited by PapaLazarou on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:37 pm

Success, it fits perfectly, now I've mauled it a little and drilled a couple of holes that is... cheers

Used some tiny M3 bolt spares from Aurora props, and found some bolts and spring washers for underneath.
There's enough clearance to top of FC too, around 2-3mm at least, they would probably hold without bolt as they self-tapped in, but they're bolts not screws and the thing gets folded down a lot, so best safe than sorry.

They fold back along either side of a 4s battery just right when it's sat on the pad, and are clear enough of the XT60 port when pushed a little further down...

I can probably clip the tubes down to half size, but I'll leave them for now in case I move the XSR receiver a little and they poke through further.

These things are perfect, gonna get me a few more while they're around.

Stage 6.4:


Underneath...
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muckyman
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:16 am

Walkera make some great stuff,they may even make a decent quadcopter to use it all
on one day ...

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CANNER
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:34 pm

Looks good, like it came with the frame. Smile



Quote :
I can probably clip the tubes down to half size, but I'll leave them for now in case I move the XSR receiver a little and they poke through further.

I'd cut them as short as possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:00 am

It`s almost as if this frame was designed and built especially for you papa.

rolf

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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:13 pm

CANNER wrote:
Looks good, like it came with the frame. Smile

Thanks, it does fit rather well, perfect fit I'd say...

Quote :
I'd cut them as short as possible.

I'll leave it be for now until I've flown a couple of times, just to be sure it's in the right place.


Muckyman wrote:
It`s almost as if this frame was designed and built especially for you papa.

I'd wholeheartedly agree with that statement, I love this frame, and have loved building the quad.
lol!

I was ready to fly it today too, well almost, charged all my batteries then spotted a weak point on the XSR connector SBUS wire, the heatsrink wasn't quite covering the solder join on the yellow, and it was bending, soldered wire this thin will break after a couple of bends backwards and forwards.
So I clipped it back and decided to redo it without the wire joins, it was about 2cm too long anyway. I needed to take apart the needle point tiny pins on the XSR connector, cut the wires shorter, push in and clamp the wires, then done. Should have took me an hour tops, it didn't...
First I used the original pins and did some micro surgery on them which I was quite chuffed with (top part of pic below), I clamped them successfully, but I don't trust these tiny clamps so I put a super tiny amount of solder on each wire where it was clamped.
This was a bad idea, I touched it for a fraction of a second so it flowed around the wire and clamp, but I didn't notice it also flowed along the hole where the pin goes in.

Each pinhole had solder in it, the pins were now useless...

So I use another connector's pins with the same pitch and these were the only ones I had, but they didn't stay clamped when pushed in. The little plastic clamp that holds the pin is in a different position. ARSE! So, solution, push them all in and hold the back part in with superglue, ace!!! (bottom part of pic below)
Nah, not ace, the superglue also flowed down the pinhole after 10 mins and rendered the plastic plug useless now too, bricked...
ARGH!!!

So, I fucked it completely, I have another 5pin cable connector, it pushes in part way but not all the way, so fecking FrSky have used an uncommon type of connector, so I had to order a couple today, hopefully they'll come tomorrow, and hopefully they are not the common sort that don't actually fit, even though on paper they should. Otherwise I'll have to carefully remove the connector from the XSR direct solder...
Gutted!

Take not people, don't ever drop solder on these types of pins it'll just flow straight down the connector hole and superglue is far too runny to use too like I did, capillary action also pulled it along the hole.

Fuck-to-fuckery, no flying today....

[img][/img]
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CANNER
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:12 pm

sheiiiit Rolling Eyes that's fucking frustrating, even just reading it. Mad Being done, spotting a weakspot, and then accidentaly screwing it up while trying to perfect it. Had that happen a few times also, superannoying, thankfully I already forgot most of it. Smile

But the last time I also screwed up a receiver, right at the moment of having finished doing some repairs. Strapped on the receiver to tight, ripping the antenna connectors, they were still attached but not making contact anymore. Tried soldering them, but no luck. Have to buy a new one, but they're cheap at banggood now, only €15. Only have to wait for money and ofcourse the time it takes to get it delivered.


Quote :
so I had to order a couple today, hopefully they'll come tomorrow, and hopefully they are not the common sort that don't actually fit, even though on paper they should. Otherwise I'll have to carefully remove the connector from the XSR direct solder...
Gutted!
At banggood they sell cheap sparecables for XSR, in case the ones you ordered don't fit. Wink


https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-5p-JST-XH-1_25mm-Cable-5-Pin-Receiver-Wire-for-XSR-2_4G-ACCST-Receiver-p-1115427.html?rmmds=search
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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:36 pm

CANNER wrote:
sheiiiit Rolling Eyes that's fucking frustrating, even just reading it. Mad Being done, spotting a weakspot, and then accidentaly screwing it up while trying to perfect it. Had that happen a few times also, superannoying, thankfully I already forgot most of it. Smile

Tell me about it lol, it happens, it's salvageable of course with new connector, but it's the delay and timing that annoying lol, but hey ho, once more into the breach....

Quote :
But the last time I also screwed up a receiver, right at the moment of having finished doing some repairs. Strapped on the receiver to tight, ripping the antenna connectors, they were still attached but not making contact anymore. Tried soldering them, but no luck. Have to buy a new one, but they're cheap at banggood now, only €15. Only have to wait for money and ofcourse the time it takes to get it delivered.

Doh, hehe, I amost did the a similar thing, my battery strap goes through the frame, if I had not noticed, I'd have tightened it against the inside of the frame so it would have also trapped the XSR stuck underneath and most likely damaged it... Doing this fuck up gave me some time to go over it, and notice this, so I moved it forward about 1cm, enough for the battery strap to get enough purchase, this would have most likely killed my receiver.

Quote :
At banggood they sell cheap sparecables for XSR, in case the ones you ordered don't fit. Wink
https://www.banggood.com/FrSky-5p-JST-XH-1_25mm-Cable-5-Pin-Receiver-Wire-for-XSR-2_4G-ACCST-Receiver-p-1115427.html?rmmds=search

Cheers mate, I bought 2 today from T9HobbyuSport, they dispatched within an hour or so, should have em by weekend, hopefully tomorrow, only cost £1.80 each.
Ta though, wil buy a couple more, I always get a few cables and connectors for spares whenever I'm buying anything if I can. Actually need some more Silicone wire too...

BTW, another small tip, if you can - ALWAYS buy silicone wire, the cheapo plastic stuff can be a nightmare to tin and solder, if you don't get the heat setting right it will melt backwards along the wire, which is soooo annoying. Silicone will not melt at normal soldering temps...

Almost there...
cool
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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:21 am

T9HobbySport are quick, cables came just now, ordered at about 3:30 yesterday, result.  cheers

And they fit!  cheers  cheers

Still waiting for SuGru stuff to stick my XT60 down when lifting lid off, ordered on Wednesday, still waiting, slackers... Wink


BTW, is the width of this page getting wider and wider to you guys, formatting seems to be going a bit mental...?
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:52 pm

Great it didn't last too long.  Smile   So this means now you are ready for the first testflight? Cool

Quote :
BTW, is the width of this page getting wider and wider to you guys, formatting seems to be going a bit mental...?
Have not noticed any changes recently, though it could be possible.

Maybe the formatting adjusted to some of the pics you posted.
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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:27 pm

Yes indeed I'm ready to fly, well will be ready in a hour or so...

Will actually be flying tomorrow most probably or Sunday, two goodish days coming up, bit of rain around today...

Formatting thing, must just be Chrome trying to be clever, my pics are all same size, just seems a little off, no worries, ta.

cool
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:09 am

It seems,as canner mentioned,that the pages expand to fit the pics
posted. So text only comments get spread out to the width of the pix
from higher up on the thread.

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PapaLazarou
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:31 pm

Cheers Mucky/Canner, found some double formatting for the image above, hence it was set in more to the right than it should've been...
cool
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:12 pm

Cable sorted at last...
Still waiting for MyMemory.co.uk to deliver the SuGru stuff I ordered on Wed to hold in the XT60 when lifting off lid, not a big deal for now though.
It is of course clamped with the 2 grub screws when the lids on for plugging and unplugging the baterry.


So it's done, and I'm off out to test it, on CF for now, default settings mostly, here goes nothing...
cool

Stage 6.5 - Ready to Roll
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:48 pm

Looking good!

Good luck with the first flight.
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:35 pm

First Flight of Gravity...
IT
WAS
AWESOME!

hgg

Viddy to follow, sooo much POWER...

lol!

I got to get me some FPV, I'm gonna practice in the mean time on AeroFly LOS and perhaps purchase LiftOff as I believe it's much improved.
I might use my phone for FPV, but it could be an issue in the sun, I have a MotoG5, it's a good bright screen but I might not risk it. Carry on for now LOS, save for goggles and get buzzing the tower on the local cop shop...

Foooking awesome, and stable, and solid, surprisingly quiet and sounds quite mean too, also nothings going to break this thing it's extremely tough. (Refer back to this comment for piss take when I break it) Wink

Tried 3S, first, good power, almost 1/2 throttle to take off, but very powerful, then I went to 4S... Wow, so nippy, takes off about 1/3 throttle and stacks of power, just wanna do dives and turns but I can't get my head around LOS yet. I do realise of course I've only been out properly 3 times, so it's early days, but, just need FPV BADLY....

Exhilarating.
cool

Edit: BTW Thanks Canner, too excited to reply... Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Papa's Quad Build(s).   Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:47 pm

Gravity viddy...

These Motors are pretty quiet, my Aurora seemed noisier.

However bear in mind I left my RunCam in it's waterproof case, and it blocks to Mic, DOH and the Aurora motors are 7500KV screamers!

This is the first flight on 3S.
I ditched it once at the end, I think I throttled up for a punch out or flip maybe, it rotated to the left, and I lost orientation so I landed it. At least that's what I think happened, suddenly it was facing left and I wasn't sure why.
Checked my rates after on yaw and they are quite sensitive, it's just powerful and I'm still learning fine control. Also I don't have any expo at all yet, just flat line for everything until I go FPV then start playing around more.



I think, although not 100% sure that this next vid is 4S, there was plenty more ooomph on 4S...
...some flips and stuff too, soooo stable, well happy... Wink
You can see me at about 1:10 in trying to flip and it hitting the max as it would in Angle mode. I had flipped the switch for what I thought was Horizon mode (middle pos) and realised it's now in Angle, how odd, anyway, flipped again back to what I had actually been flying in (switch up), Horizon, to do some flips.
I have mine setup, switch 0(up) = Angle, 1(mid) = Horizon and 2(down) = Acro, so on first power up it's in safe Angle mode, or so I thought, I need to check this as I'm 90% sure I set this correctly.

I understand it as Angle is the easiest, you can't flip, it has a max angle you can tilt too far and Horizon is a Combo of Angle and Acro, Acro of course is full control.
Do I have this the wrong way round? If not then I think the SPF3 has it wrong, although I'll have to check my modes later to make sure I did't just set it up wrong? Hmmmm.

It feels so confident when flipping too BTW, I think it's just the power, and I seem to have the hang of it, luckily. Of course this is in Horizon mode, well aware of picking up bad habbits, but I'll say it again I need FPV now lol..
Wink



All in all, Awesome.
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