HomeEventsRegisterLog in
Help my beer fund
Latest topics
Top posters
muckyman
 
CANNER
 
sengoksa
 
cujoway
 
dorito777
 
_KLEO_
 
Firsty
 
Sinsinety
 
PapaLazarou
 
MikeyT68
 
Navigation
 Portal
 Index
 Memberlist
 Profile
 FAQ
 Search
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search

Share | 
 

 Betaflight 3.2

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Betaflight 3.2   Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:56 am

I'm going to wait till the beta is out, but this 'dynamic notch filter' sounds very promising.

Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:02 pm

Ah yes just watched that myself 10 mins ago, I'm also going to wait for the full release, bugs ironed out etc...

It does sound great this dynamic notch filter, although it's not affecting me yet either, so defo wait.

Also I'm gonna stick to Betaflight for my mini, and stay with CleanFlight for my 250, seems BF are now doing a similar thing to CF, less often releases, using RC Release Candidates in between. Will be good to see how both perform and learn about each at the same time.... Ideally I'll eventually have 2 larger quads, I have 2 frames now already, and use BF on one and CF on the other.
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:24 pm

Betaflight 3.2 is available. cheers  Just found out, so not tried yet.

https://github.com/betaflight/betaflight/releases
Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:54 pm

Superb...

I'm on CF on my Gravity though, but after a little fly I might move over, I like the BetaFlight OSD change PID settings thing too. I was looking at all-in-ones FCs and possibly ESC too, but especially FCs with OSD and Smartaudio etc....

This is in the future for me though, first I need to save for bike insurance, then Goggles over the autumn period.

So short trip on the CF setup, then move over to exclusively on BetaFlight I reckon, especially now this is out, so far reports are good, lets see what the community reports back.

Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:55 pm

Upgraded my KISS-setup to Betaflight 3.2, so now I have 'Dynamic filtering'. Surprised 

Also replaced the props to 4 blade 5040's. Very curious about the sound now.

Going to try the new Betaflight as soon as the weather allows it.
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:26 pm

Went out to try the new Betaflight today. Since the last time went so great, I left the laptop at home, expecting I wouldn't have to tune or anything. But it didn't fly as great as hoped.

I'll post the same comment here as I wrote with the video on youtube:

After soft landing and throttling down with both airmode antigravity mode enabled, a second later the quad began to spin up the props by itself and wanted to take off, I steered it away from me and crashed in a safe spot.

This never happened with Betaflight 3.17. Maybe the new Dynamic filter is the cause?

Plus I noticed a strange hiccup at 3:13 in the video, this is also possibly caused by the Dynamic filter.



Obviously the quad still needs tuning, and part of the vibrations should be fixable, but I'm seriously doubting the greatness of this Dynamic filter. Maybe it's not perfected yet, the firmware is still in beta. I'm going to test it a little bit more and do some tuning this week, but if I don't get it perfect I will move back to Betaflight 3.17. Cause that flew great on stockPIDs.

Here's a video showing how shitty it flew. Well, I was able to fly around and do stuff, but it wasn't pretty. Wink

Also had another close one with a bird (at 3:13). Really hope I never hit one. Neutral



btw, tried installing the Gopro app on my phone, but could not even reach the Gopro site from my phone, because the site was blocked for security reasons. cough cough. Will get it done another way, maybe I can download the app installer on my pc, and then copy it to my phone. Would not surprise me that once I do get the app installed, it won't work because my phone is too old and the operatingsystem outdated. cyclops
Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:59 pm

That's a real shame, but keep at it, quite possibly something you've missed as there's so much to keep track of when changing to something like this...

You can tell as soon as it takes off it's wobbly, and the motors even sound like they're being overworked a little. You can hear the vibration coming from them as you throttle up. I noticed the slight correction at 3:13 too, odd, I didn't see the bird though.

Have you turned off all the other notch filters and settings your supposed to turn off while having Dynamic on, don't ask me which as I'm not sure?

Also, I'm sure you're aware of this, you shouldn't land with Airmode on, it will most certainly try to bounce or flip like yours did. If you don't disarm immediately when you've landed, then just before defo turn off Airmode on a switch. You might just have got away with it before, but it might just be this and not the new filter.

Also I think Painless360 does this (might not be him, could be The Bard, just had a quick look can't find it), and I will perhaps try it too: Set your quad so you can disarm as your landing, and it won't fully disarm until you've throttled all the way down. This is possible in the settings but I've left mine as standard for now. I have Airmode to come on while in Acro or Horizon only and it's off in Angle mode. As I'm mostly practising in Angle at the mo while I'm learning I'm usually landing without it on. So I've not had reason to play about with this much yet.

Perhaps take off your GoPro while experimenting.... Wink

Good luck.
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:41 pm

Quote :
Have you turned off all the other notch filters and settings your supposed to turn off while having Dynamic on, don't ask me which as I'm not sure?


I only turned the Dynamic filtering on, and set dterm lowpass type to PT1. Wasn't aware those other filters needed to be turned off when using Dynamic filtering. Will look into that now, very possible there was a filtering conflict.

 


Quote :
Also, I'm sure you're aware of this, you shouldn't land with Airmode on, it will most certainly try to bounce or flip like yours did. If you don't disarm immediately when you've landed, then just before defo turn off Airmode on a switch. You might just have got away with it before, but it might just be this and not the new filter.

This was different from normal bounce on landing. The quad began to spin up well after landing it, and almost a second after I had throttled down completely. You can find videos on how to land in airmode, it should not be a problem when landing carefully.


Quote :
Also I think Painless360 does this (might not be him, could be The Bard, just had a quick look can't find it), and I will perhaps try it too: Set your quad so you can disarm as your landing, and it won't fully disarm until you've throttled all the way down.

That might be nice to try. Hope you can find the video on how to set it up.
Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:41 pm

Yes I agree that did look different from a normal bounce landing with Airmode, odd...
Cool, ok no experience yet landing with Airmode, although I say that and as I type I realise I've just done it successfully with the Gravity... Yeee...

Will find that video mate, could take some searching, but I'll find it, the docs explain it, but seeing someone explain it helps I know.
Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:58 pm

Found the video at last, disarm first, then lower throttle to zero to disarm completly...
I may use this method too, as long as Motor_Stop is off, as in when you arm they spin (Which also allows for inverted control if throttle is zeroed out, ie so you can still turn with throttle at zero etc...)

Forward to 36:20 in the video...
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:12 pm

Always wondered what that motor_stop was actually for. I may try it, but with care. Last time I used Arm on a switch did not go too well. After landing I automatically tried to disarm with the throttle stick, which then launched the quad full yaw spin straight up into the air. One moment I was on the ground, next second I was 20 meters high up again... Rolling Eyes But with this motor_stop that should not happen.

Thanks


Quote :
btw, tried installing the Gopro app on my phone, but could not even reach the Gopro site from my phone, because the site was blocked for security reasons. cough cough. Will get it done another way, maybe I can download the app installer on my pc, and then copy it to my phone. Would not surprise me that once I do get the app installed, it won't work because my phone is too old and the operatingsystem outdated.  

Guess what? Downloaded the installer to my phone, and it failed to open. 'Problem with parsing the file', or whatever the message was. Also tried older versions of the Gopro app with the same result. Now considering to update my phones operatingsystem, last time was 3-4 years ago, so not a real big surprise it didn't work. Only problem with updating the OS is that it could brick the phone if it goes wrong.
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:13 pm

For testing I flashed the KISS quad back to Betaflight 3.17, used the same 4 blade 5040 propellors, and went out to try.
Result: It still flew shit. Different shit, but still shit. For some reason the quad starts to shake at around 30% throttle.
Below it is fine, and beyond 30% it gets better when throttling up, but I want it to be perfect at 30% also.
Tried changing the PIDs, filtersettings, throttle TPA, nothing seemed to fix it. Changed to completely new fresh props, but same effect.
After a few batteries I gave up for the moment, and changed the props back to the heavier 3 blade 5045's.
Now the oscillations at 30% are good as gone. Not completely, but I have to search for it with the throttle.
And the quad flies fine again, though a bit noisier then with the other props.

So part of the poor performance I had with BF3.2 was caused by the 4 blade 5040 propellors.
Now I need to figure out how to fix it, cause I stll want to use those 4 blades.
Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:17 pm

CANNER wrote:
Always wondered what that motor_stop was actually for. I may try it, but with care. Last time I used Arm on a switch did not go too well. After landing I automatically tried to disarm with the throttle stick, which then launched the quad full yaw spin straight up into the air. One moment I was on the ground, next second I was 20 meters high up again... Rolling Eyes But with this motor_stop that should not happen.

Cool, take care to perhaps practise though, it's hard to unlearn something your already programmed to do.
Try perhaps this bit of NLP (Neuro-Linguistic-Programming) on yourself, it helps you program your brain to automatically do something...
With the new switch to disarm and full disarm on throttle down method, repeatedly do this perhaps 5 to 10 times in a row:
Arm - take off - throttle back a little - disarm - land
Repeat this until your bored, it's a little tedious, might seem unnecessary, but you'll learn the habitual nature of the new technique....
I used this to programme myself to MUTE any gap in TV programmes, I now hate listening to adverts and can't stand leaving the audio on when adverts come on... Wink
cool


Quote :
Guess what? Downloaded the installer to my phone, and it failed to open. 'Problem with parsing the file', or whatever the message was. Also tried older versions of the Gopro app with the same result. Now considering to update my phones operatingsystem, last time was 3-4 years ago, so not a real big surprise it didn't work. Only problem with updating the OS is that it could brick the phone if it goes wrong.

Oh dear, can't help you there dude, good luck...

Quote :
For testing I flashed the KISS quad back to Betaflight 3.17, used the same 4 blade 5040 propellors, and went out to try.
Result: It still flew shit. Different shit, but still shit. For some reason the quad starts to shake at around 30% throttle.
Below it is fine, and beyond 30% it gets better when throttling up, but I want it to be perfect at 30% also.
Tried changing the PIDs, filtersettings, throttle TPA, nothing seemed to fix it. Changed to completely new fresh props, but same effect.
After a few batteries I gave up for the moment, and changed the props back to the heavier 3 blade 5045's.
Now the oscillations at 30% are good as gone. Not completely, but I have to search for it with the throttle.
And the quad flies fine again, though a bit noisier then with the other props.

So part of the poor performance I had with BF3.2 was caused by the 4 blade 5040 propellors.
Now I need to figure out how to fix it, cause I stll want to use those 4 blades.

Bugger!
Obvious thing springs to mind, check motor bolts & is your FC screwed down properly...
Again... Good luck...
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:05 pm

Quote :
Bugger!
Obvious thing springs to mind, check motor bolts & is your FC screwed down properly...
Again... Good luck...

Both fixed tightly yes. I'm going to keep trying with the 4 blade propellors. Probably needs some proper tuning, but only tried random small steps yet in adjusting the PIDs.

At least I found a prop/motor combo that works.

Next vid is back to BF3.17 and the 3 blade 5045 props.

Around 2:30 I am searching for the point in the throttle-range where the quad begins to oscillate, but then a little bit more throttle and it smooths out again. Interesting scratch

Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:50 pm

I can also see it do it at 1:31 too, slight oscillation...

I've got a feeling you've got several up the throttle range, hard to tell for sure though there was one clear one, saw slight ones here and there as you gradually throttled up, but still I can't be sure of that TBH... Trying to listen to the sound but I think that auto-cutoff filter on your GoPro is filtering low sounds when the wind kicks in, then it changes back every now and again...

I can only imagine it's the Motor/Prop combo like you say, type of props/aggressiveness and material maybe...
Having not had any experience with adjusting PIDs yet all I have is theory (I hope to be joining you in tuning soon)... The relationship between props and PID settings is quite complex and I would have said using this new Dynamic Notch would sort it for whatever props you put on... As currently without the new filter your PIDs need to be adjusted accordingly, I think lol, again, I would have to read up on this, but this is how I understand it.

Hmmm, it is early days yet though for the new filter, and perhaps read up on exactly needs to be turned off regarding the other filters, unless you already did this...

The only thing I can suggest is maybe trying to data log, and learning to use that data to give you a better and much much clearer idea where the vibrations are, this might help to understand I guess, maybe not necessarily fix it.

I've got an idea, balance your motors, they will produce less vibrations in the props, then less again in the quad/PIDs....
Hehe, don't hit me lol...
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:05 pm

PapaLazarou wrote:
I can also see it do it at 1:31 too, slight oscillation...
That's propwash from bad steering coming out of the loop.  Wink  it's not the same as the shaking from the throttle oscillations.
Quote :

I've got a feeling you've got several up the throttle range, hard to tell for sure though there was one clear one, saw slight ones here and there as you gradually throttled up, but still I can't be sure of that TBH... Trying to listen to the sound but I think that auto-cutoff filter on your GoPro is filtering low sounds when the wind kicks in, then it changes back every now and again...

At 0:50 and 3:10 the sound changes to how it should sound to my idea. Didn't know this change in sound was caused by the Gopro. Thought those were moments that everything was timed and synced perfectly. With the quad moving at the right speed, without pushing too hard, everything balanced. But from the outside you can't hear that difference, so maybe you're right.

Quote :

I can only imagine it's the Motor/Prop combo like you say, type of props/aggressiveness and material maybe...
Starting to think it is the KISS FC/ESCs itself. That it is designed around a specific motor, namely Lumenier. And it requires a motor to have at least the same amount of magnets at a specific strength, to function at maximum performance. Just a theory though.


Quote :

The only thing I can suggest is maybe trying to data log, and learning to use that data to give you a better and much much clearer idea where the vibrations are, this might help to understand I guess, maybe not necessarily fix it.
KISS FC does not have the option to record a flight log.

Once KISS was great, but it never grew up and now it's already outdated.
I'm just going to fly the shit out of it, and eventually upgrade to a more recent flightcontroller/ESCs. Cool
Back to top Go down
PapaLazarou
quake God
quake God


Posts : 335
Join date : 2017-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:44 pm

CANNER wrote:

That's propwash from bad steering coming out of the loop.  Wink  it's not the same as the shaking from the throttle oscillations.

Ah k mate, not easy for me to tell, as yet without FPV flying I've not experienced this.

Quote :
At 0:50 and 3:10 the sound changes to how it should sound to my idea. Didn't know this change in sound was caused by the Gopro. Thought those were moments that everything was timed and synced perfectly. With the quad moving at the right speed, without pushing too hard, everything balanced. But from the outside you can't hear that difference, so maybe you're right.

I thought that it might be the sound of it flying perfectly in synch too, I'm undecided about this, although that audio filtering does happen I believe, not sure on exact conditions. So YOU could actually be right instead of me... Wink It did sound filtered to me though, one to watch or investigate.

Quote :

Starting to think it is the KISS FC/ESCs itself. That it is designed around a specific motor, namely Lumenier. And it requires a motor to have at least the same amount of magnets at a specific strength, to function at maximum performance. Just a theory though.

KISS FC does not have the option to record a flight log.

Once KISS was great, but it never grew up and now it's already outdated.
I'm just going to fly the shit out of it, and eventually upgrade to a more recent flightcontroller/ESCs. Cool

Shame it doesn't have flight log...
You could be right about KISS these days, have no experience of them, not even read much, a change would be good. This would satisfy some niggling questions you may have had if you upgrade, so yeh, possible future option.
All good fun, until it costs another fortune for next upgrade, hehe....
Back to top Go down
CANNER
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Posts : 3414
Join date : 2013-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:48 pm

Did some more testing today, this time turned D_lowpass_type back to PT1, and the propwash and oscillations are much less noticable then yesterday.
Thinking about reinstalling the antivibration FC mounts again. They worked great for smoothing out vibrations, but they introduced more bounce after flips and sharp turns. Maybe I should look deeper into how the Betaflight filtering works, there are quite a lot of things you can adjust, but no idea what each setting actually does.

Quote :
All good fun, until it costs another fortune for next upgrade, hehe....

That's the only thing bothering me a little, the KISS stuff was not cheap, I expected it to work flawless, not this picky compatibility with motors nonsense.
Rather have these problems with cheap parts. They simple work or break quickly. Smile It's the same as with pc hardware, the expensive high end stuff always giving problems, and the cheaper midrange parts just works like they should.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Betaflight 3.2   

Back to top Go down
 
Betaflight 3.2
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: Quad copter tips and tricks-
Jump to: